Wednesday, October 12, 2016


Josh Marshall is worried about the aftermath of this election:
Quite simply, everybody needs to be paying close attention to what happens on November 9th.

It now seems quite likely that Hillary Clinton will win the November election and become the next President of the United States. But Donald Trump has been for months pushing the idea that the election may be stolen from him by some mix of voter fraud (by racial and ethnic minorities) or more systemic election rigging by persons unknown. Polls show that large numbers of his supporters believe this.

... to date, the 'voter fraud' scam has never been fully weaponized as a way to delegitimize and even resist a specific election, certainly not a national election.... Donald Trump is doing that now....

As the pressure on him grows and his own anger mounts there's every reason to think he'll keep upping the ante.
But as I said last night in reference to the possibility that he might willfully destroy the GOP, Trump has no attention span, doesn't understand how politics works, and is obsessed with feeding his own ego, so he's limited in what he can accomplish. Trump might want to rally his troops to contest the election results, but unlike most demagogues, he's too ignorant to know what steps to take to throw the country into chaos.

What he's more likely to do is to look for a way to feed his own ego. So he'll just go back out on the road, hold more big rallies, bask in the love and affection, and make a vague promise that -- believe him! -- he'll get the election results overturned. He won't tell us how, because he won't have the slightest idea what to do next (and, of course, there won't be anything plausible he can do, especially if it's a rout). It'll be like his pledge to find the truth about President Obama's birth certificate -- he'll probably give us a load of malarkey about having experts who are looking into the situation ("they cannot believe what they’re finding"). Or he'll threaten lawsuits (but who the hell can he sue?).Beyond that, he'll have nothing.

I worry more about acolytes like that thug in a bespoke suit, Roger Stone. Remember his threat to send Trump supporters to the hotels rooms of Republican convention delegates if there was a move to deny Trump the nomination? I wouldn't want to be a member of the Electoral College pledged to vote for Clinton in a state with a close race -- Stone really might point some goons toward the electors, their spouses, and their kids. The same is true for state officials overseeing elections in closely contested states. Stone, unlike Trump, might actually know specific ways to be menace.

And there's always the risk of spontaneous white riots. As Trip Gabriel notes in The New York Times today, the Trumpers still think their man is winning:
WILKES-BARRE, Pa. — ... thousands of Trump supporters turned out with undimmed fervor for the Republican nominee and optimism about his electoral prospects.

... They reiterated Mr. Trump’s claim that national polls showing him behind by double digits were “rigged” and that he was heading to victory in November.

... His supporters routinely pointed, as the nominee did, to the huge crowds still flocking to see him as evidence that his campaign remains strong.

“I don’t believe anything the media says,” said Brad Chilson, 47, a truck driver from Bradford County, Pa., who waited hours with his wife outside the 8,000-seat Mohegan Sun Arena in Wilkes-Barre for Mr. Trump. “Look at the turnout we’ve got here.”
And they believe everything is a conspiracy:
They also repeated conspiracy theories that flourish online. “A lot of people affiliated with Hillary have died over the years, and nobody says nothing about it,” said Eric Bulger, a retired police officer with the Port Authority for New York and New Jersey.

... Mike Pisano, 65, a factory worker, echoed Mr. Trump’s contention that Mrs. Clinton had escaped indictment because Bill Clinton had met privately with Attorney General Loretta Lynch.

“He was on the plane with her fixing that,” Mr. Pisano said.
I don't think Trump is going to tell his voters to commit mayhem if Clinton is declared the loser winner, because there's no ego gratification for him if they do. (Remember, he's the "I alone can fix it" guy.) But I think the Trumpers might go in that direction on their own, or might be goaded by the likes of Stone, Alex Jones, and Breitbart. Trump might play some part in the goading. But he'll seek adulation first, because that's what he really cares about.


Pragmatic Idealist said...

You're dead wrong about attention span. When Trump feels disrespected his tenacity is legendary.

Steve M. said...

Yes, but tenacity for him when he wants vengeance usually involves getting his lawyers to sue. I just added a line in the post about that -- who can be sued in this situation?

Anonymous said...

“Look at the turnout we’ve got here.”

70,000 people go to Burning Man, dude.

KenRight said...

Of course there IS widespread voter fraud committed by the Dem. Party and it's really a question of how long Euro-Americans are going to postpone the reckoning in liue of ever diminishing job and other security. It goes without
saying, demographically, the longer the delay the harder the fight and the longer the instability.
I did not believe Euro-Americans would accept forced bussing in the 1960s and 1970s but after short-term fierce resistance they did, so please don't ask me.

Unknown said...

I am not worried at all. Most will go back to the Video Games and sulk for couple of weeks. Then they will say "At least we tried". The others Breitbart, Alex Jones, etc. will be so despised by Elected GOP politicians they will be back to where they are now.

KenRight said...

An average-talented author could write a book before the election, have it published, with several separate chapters each detailing the various illegitimate aspects of a Clinton presidency.

jsrtheta said...

@KenWrong: If you'd ever worked an election in any meaningful way you'd know you're full of shit. Even more than usual, which is saying a lot.

As for the other nonsense you posted:

If you're going to just lie, you might pick something to lie about that isn't so obvious. It took me all of 90 seconds to confirm you're full of shit.

Have a nice day, Ivan.

BroD said...

Actually, I am worried--this could get ugly fast.

mlbxxxxxx said...

I think there may well be "white riots" whether Trump wins or loses. Many Trump supporters are the same guys that riot when their team wins the pennant. A Trump win would release their animal spirits and make them feel thoroughly validated. I think we would see more attacks on minorities, vigilante deportation squads, as well as euphoria-fueled riots. If he loses, they are going to be pissed but the only real difference will be that the riots will be angry rather than euphoric. Either way, there may be an serious attempt to foment a race war.

Leo Artunian said...

"I don't think Trump is going to tell his voters to commit mayhem if Clinton is declared the loser, because there's no ego gratification for him if they do."

Steve, I think you mean, "I don't think Trump is going to tell his voters to commit mayhem if Clinton is declared the winner, . . . " unless there's a deeper game going on here then I'm aware of.

Pragmatic Idealist said...

His feud against Spy Magazine went on for decades. That wasn't because of lawsuits but because that got under his skin.

He wants revenge and he's not going to forget about it in the next month.

Steve M. said...

It was because Spy kept going after him. If Spy had stopped, he'd have forgotten all about it.

And he did what exactly to Spy?

Victor said...

I'm not only about after the election, by ON Election Day!

Groups of armed angry TRUMP-A-LOON-PAH's may decide to "check-out" the voting in minority areas, and decide to cull the herd in line of likely Hillary voters.

And if the 50+ year "Cold Civil War" gets "hot," he and his evil family brood can skip off to Scotland, or somewhere else that's safe, and come back to pick- up the pieces, because, real estate will be cheap, and 'And that'll make them smart!'

jsrtheta said...

@Victor: Don't do that to Scotland. It's a lovely country and I have friends there.

Anonymous said...

Can we round them up, ay gunpoint, and escort them, at gunpoint, to reservations out in the hinterlands, preferably the Moons of Uranus? Last time I checked NAZIs and Confederates are at war with the US, are enemies of the American People, enemies of the American Way of Life, and for the preservation of The Union it would be prudent, and is not without precedence.

If there's a one percent chance they will destroy the country we have the resposibility to unilaterally take pre-emptive action.

Ten Bears

Glennis said...

What "reckoning" do you predict "Euro-Americans" [i.e., white people] are going to bring, KenRight? Just exactly what do you mean? I'd like for my report to the FBI be as accurate as possible.

Grung_e_Gene said...

Gonna frog march all the revanchist white right-wingets into FEMA wal-mart death camps. Haha!

trnc said...

"An average-talented author could write a book before the election, have it published, with several separate chapters each detailing the various illegitimate aspects of a Clinton presidency."

Ken, given your criteria, it's clear that we should not expect said book from you. I could throw a typewriter from the top of a pyramid and have something more coherent at the bottom than what you post here.

Steve M. said...

Leo, thanks for the correction. Fixed now.

Frank Wilhoit said...

They won't need to be told what to do.

KenRight said...

You people wonder whether Trump believes in any conspiracy theory or is still posing. You people wonder if Trump will really believe in potentially dangerous conspiracy theories surrounding his being cheated out of the election.
I find it far more dangerous that Clinton really does believe in the myth that America is "the only indispensable nation."
Chilling, and the Russians and Chinese are making preparations together.

Unknown said...

I am curious as to what happens if the Republicans retain the House with only a slim majority. Who is going to be elected Speaker?

I can imagine quite a kerfuffle on that point.

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