Garcia-Navarro gets Carlson to explain some of his conspiracy thinking, but he's careful to make it sound rational and not too anti-Semitic. When asked why he believes President Trump agreed to go to war with Iran, he calculatedly provides a list of pro-war advisers that's a mix of Jews and non-Jews:
My strong impression, and I could be wrong because I don’t work there, is that no one in the [White House] was pushing for this, at least overtly. That all the pressure was coming from outside — constant calls from donors and people with influence over the president. Rupert Murdoch, Miriam Adelson, etc., and then a small constellation of, I guess they’d be called influencers, beginning with Mark Levin, but there were others, Sean Hannity, pushing the president to do this and telling him that you will be a figure out of history, you will save and redeem Israel or something.I have to admit that this, in isolation, is fairly plausible. Later, Garcia-Navarro tries to pin Carlson down, and he sounds a bit more conspiratorial:
You said he’s a hostage just now. You told the BBC he’s a “slave” to foreign interests. Correct.Saying that Netanyahu strongly influenced Trump's decision to go to war isn't conspiratorial, of course, but saying that Trump is a "slave" to Netanyahu is.
I just want you to be explicit. Trump is being held hostage by whom? By Benjamin Netanyahu and by his many advocates in the United States.
Carlson goes on to argue that we're stuck in Iran because of Netanyahu:
And we know that not simply because Trump started the war on Feb. 28, but because he couldn’t get out of it. He declares we’re having a cease-fire. He says, We’re having a cease-fire and we’re having these talks and they’re going great, and we are going to open the strait. And Iran says, Yeah, one of our conditions is Israel’s got to pull back from southern Lebanon. You can’t use the Iran war as a pretext for stealing more land from a sovereign country that’s not your country....Carlson is essentially saying that Trump is blameless in this matter -- he could have gotten us out of the war, but Israel trapped him. Carlson ignores Trump's own strategic ineptitude, and his own desire to keep fighting the glorious war that both Netanyahu and Fox News want him to fight until he achieves the glorious victory they tell him he can achieve.
And within hours of Trump announcing this, Israel publicly, in a way that was designed to get the attention of everyone, including the Iranians, starts killing civilians in Lebanon. Now, what was the point of that? Not to secure the Israeli homeland. The point of it was to end any talk of a negotiated settlement, to keep this going until Iran was destroyed and chaotic, which is the Israeli goal.
We think Carlson has broken with Trump, but I think he's being careful not to burn the bridge between himself and Trump.
Carlson describes a conversation he had with Trump about Iran -- and puts an utterly implausible spin on it:
He felt he had no choice and he said to me, Everything’s going to be OK. Because I was getting overwrought. Don’t do this. The people pushing you to do this hate you. They’re your enemies. This will destroy you. This will gravely harm our country. We’ve got kids. I’m hoping for grandkids. Let’s not go there. And he said, It’s going to be all right, and he said, Do you know how I know that? And I said no, and he said, Because it always is. There’s a kind of Teddy Rooseveltian optimism there, but that’s not really what it was. This is my read. That was more a justification from a man who feels he has no choice.No, it wasn't "a justification from a man who feels he has no choice." It was Trump being the Power of Positive Thinking simpleton he's always been, going back to his real estate days. And, well, you can't blame him -- he's run multiple businesses into the ground and destroyed the United States, but he always seems to emerge without a scratch.
Carlson doesn't talk about demons or Satan, but he manages to inject some "spiritual" mumbo-jumbo into the conversation:
... I never saw, nor did I hear about anybody who works for the Trump administration, who was enthusiastically pushing this war on Trump, being like: “You want to make this country great again? We need a regime-change effort in Iran.” Instead there were a lot of cowardly people, as there always are, and Trump engenders cowardice in the people around him through intimidation. And there is a kind of quality that he has that’s spellbinding. And I think it probably literally is a spell. And the effect is to weaken people around him and make them more compliant and more confused. And I’ve experienced this myself. You spend a day with Trump and you’re in this kind of dreamland. It’s like smoking hash or something. It’s interesting, very interesting. And there may be a supernatural component to it. I’m not a theologian, but it’s real, and anyone who’s been around him can tell you it’s true. But whatever the cause, no one around him was weighing in strongly, as far as I know, on either side, for or against. But people from the outside were strongly weighing in, calling him constantly.Okay, let me get this straight: Trump is so spellbinding that his own aides are afraid to be forthright with him, but Trump somehow isn't spellbinding when talking to Netanyahu, Murdoch, Adelson, Hannity, and Levin. This spellbinder -- this theologically supernatural spellbinder -- apparently loses his theologically supernatural powers when talking to boldface names -- or maybe to bellicose Zionists. I can't quite pin down what Carlson is saying here.
I have an alternate theory.
Perhaps Trump is just an egomaniacal ignoramus desperately searching for legacy projects as the monthly injections in his hands remind him of his own mortality, and the boldface names just played him like a Stradivarius.
But Carlson prefers the narrative in which Trump is too powerful to get honest advice from his subordinates and also too powerless to rebuff Netanyahu and a couple of Fox News talking heads, not to mention the 95-year-old man who founded Fox. Either way, Carlson seems to be describing Trump as more sinned against than sinning, which tells me he could return to the Trump fold in the future.
Finally, I want to note another aspect of Carlson's method here. He uses the word "spellbinding," which invokes the religious realm for the yobs who subscribe to his podcast, but is also a term the Times might have used for a John F. Kennedy speech in 1962. He's trying to speak to more than one audience here, and I'd admire the code-switching skill if I weren't distracted by how willing Garcia-Navarro is to fall for it.











