DID THE JEB DEATH SPIRAL START BEFORE THE DEBATE?

It's fairly obvious now that Jeb Bush is toast. But did last night's debate kill his chances -- or just make obvious the fact that the campaign has been terminal for a while?

I'm looking at a couple of newly released state polls that were conducted before the debate. The results, for Jeb, aren't pretty.

One was conducted last week in Oklahoma by The Oklahoman. Here are the top finishers:

Carson 25
Trump 19
Rubio 9
Cruz 7
Huckabee 4
Bush 3

There are similar numbers in this Franklin & Marshall poll of Pennsylvania, conducted October 19-25:

Trump 23
Carson 22
Rubio 13
Kasich 6
Cruz 4
Bush 3
Christie 3
Fiorina 3

Yeah, Jeb's been in the doldrums in a lot of polls. But 3%? Seriously? In the Pennsylvania poll at least, that's below the margin of error (+/- 3.9%).

I think it's been over for a while for Jeb. His remaining voters were heading for the exits before last night. Now the pundits finally get it.