I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO GO GODWIN HERE

A post from Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit is the lead item at Fox Nation right now:

Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

...Yes, waterboarding worked.
Today on Meet the Press Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta admitted that information gleaned from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him.

"The real story was that in order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to Bin Laden, there were a lot of pieces out there that were a part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used. But the fact is we put together most of that intelligence without having to resort to that."

(Emphasis in the Hoft post.)

As noted over at Little Green Footballs, Hoft doesn't quote Panetta's next sentence -- "I think we could have gotten bin Laden without that."

You know what? I don't care if torture obtains useful information. It's wrong, period.

Nazi scientists actually derived useful data about the human body through brutal techniques. An example:

Unburdened by even the slightest sense of humanity, the Nazi hypothermia experimenters ... let their victims' interior body temperatures drop to 79.7°F before attempting to revive them. Most died an excruciatingly painful death as a result. However, some did revive, and the Nazis found that rapid rewarming in hot water proved the most effective way to revive them.

Researchers who've sought to use Nazi hypothermia data know it was obtained in an unimaginably immoral way. But those who've wanted to use the data have argued that the abhorrent way the information was obtained shouldn't preclude its use:

Doctor John Hayward is a Biology Professor at the Victoria University in Vancouver, Canada. Much of his hypothermia research involves the testing of cold water survival suits that are worn while on fishing boats in Canada's frigid ocean waters. Hayward used Rascher's recorded cooling curve of the human body to infer how long the suits would protect people at near fatal temperatures. This information can be used by search-and-rescue teams to determine the likelihood that a capsized boater is still alive.

According to Kristine Moe's survey in the Hasting Center Report, Hayward justified using the Nazi hypothermia data in the following way:

"I don't want to have to use the Nazi data, but there is no other and will be no other in an ethical world. I've rationalized it a bit. But not to use it would be equally bad. I'm trying to make something constructive out of it. I use it with my guard up, but it's useful."

Torture is wrong because it's wrong. The right is going to wave soundbites like this in our faces forever, but we're looking at the wrong question. Asking "Did waterboarding work?" is like asking "Did plunging emaciated Dachau prisoners in ice water work?" Morally, it doesn't matter.