tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post4911201055562132472..comments2023-10-24T09:06:30.200-04:00Comments on No More Mister Nice Blog: DO THE KOCH BROTHERS AGREE WITH THE MOST FERVENT SANDERS BACKERS ABOUT 2018?Steve M.http://www.blogger.com/profile/11963290427258439242noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-41128529113618131042016-04-25T20:15:37.137-04:002016-04-25T20:15:37.137-04:00There's this (very minor) controversy over whe...There's this (very minor) controversy over whether Brit PM Harold Macmillen ever did in fact say to a journalist, "Events, dear boy: events" as to why he saw a party's pre-election political platforms less than compelling stuff. But the point is it was and is CREDIBLE.<br /><br />in the spring of 2008, Obmama wasn't looking to any 'STIM', yet STIM there had to be due to the financial crises and collapse, and THAT turned out to be the vehicle by which Clean & Green Energy got a toehold. Without that, I really can't see the vehicle by which we'd ever have found a way to get $90 billions earmarked to that end. Also, go back in 2007, and Obama wasn't talking health care insurance reform AT ALL: it was the Dem debates involving HRC - by far the one pol in all the nation most identified with the issue - and the since discredited John Edwards that COMPELLED Obama to commit to a plan, which turned out to be more or less what we got in the ACA, plus or minus several billion industry and interest group and Congressional happy endings. And leave us not return to the dark days of whehn Obama not only didn't foresee marriage equality coming, he was AGAINST it. <br /><br />I raise all this because I find efforts to predict and pigenon hole president HRC ahistorical and mind-numbingly dumb. Back in the mid-1920s, Frank Gannett's favorite national political figure was FDR because he saw Roosevelt as an effective elitist who could sweektalk the poor into accepting their lot yet maintain white elite privilege. By 1936 Gannett was beside himself with rage over where FDR had taken the federal government.<br /><br />To borrow from Gold In the Kingdom, 'To f**k with such facile predictions and labels.Feud Turgidsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05379322096770703017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-30782556053369085812016-04-25T18:20:20.340-04:002016-04-25T18:20:20.340-04:00What's the problem? The Koch Brothers are fake...What's the problem? The Koch Brothers are fake libertarians who supported the Iraq War, and funded its promotion.<br />Clinton has always been a fake liberal erstwhile Goldwater Girl (but more hawkish) hippie who is a real neolib, also supporting the Iraq War.<br /><br />Obama, him too.<br /><br />http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/obamas-incremental-escalation-of-the-war-on-isis/KenRighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02861276158382647529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-61252491742219103412016-04-25T17:36:09.805-04:002016-04-25T17:36:09.805-04:00Steve M., I agree with you entirely about singling...Steve M., I agree with you entirely about singling out one Democratic faction. I probably could have been clearer. <br /><br />My larger point is that, in order to really implement change, you have to get down in the weeds and do the hard work of organizing and going after down-ballot and low-lever seats, as well as trying to influence the essential philosophy of the party (to the extent it has one).<br /><br />And I gravely doubt the committed "idealists" who are so zealous for Bernie will actually do that work. Few others do, as well, but if you're going to grouse about the party, then do something concrete besides showing up at rallies. jsrthetahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09471258641340325875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-44040415233033968732016-04-25T16:24:16.155-04:002016-04-25T16:24:16.155-04:00There doesn't seem to be one particular Democr...There doesn't seem to be one particular Democratic group that fails to turn out in non-presidential elections. Everyone's to blame.Steve M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11963290427258439242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-48609355632619812142016-04-25T15:16:57.400-04:002016-04-25T15:16:57.400-04:00Who, pray tell, is "they"? Just some ran...Who, pray tell, is "they"? Just some random online Sanders supporters? If so, it means no more than some of the outre' comments one sees from random online Clinton supporters now and again. Most tempers cool over time.<br />This post does, however, suggest something I've expected: an effort to ensure that if HRC either loses the general, or has a sub-stellar first couple of years in office followed by low-D-turnout off-year losses in '18, the finger of blame will point at the "Sanders faction", if not Sanders himself.CHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409212720220729669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-90596249267881431082016-04-25T14:43:04.630-04:002016-04-25T14:43:04.630-04:00BTW, this reminds me of a comment Rush Limbaugh sa...BTW, this reminds me of a comment Rush Limbaugh said in 2008 about how it was (paraphrasing) more fun to be in the opposition than having to defend Republicans.<br /><br />He's right. It is more fun (and more profitable) for certain Republicans when Democrats get in charge because demonizing the opposition is so much easier than actually having to run the show.<br /><br />I fear that a not insignificant minority of Democrats (and ersatz Democrats) might feel the same way.Chris Andersenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18139817527808942227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-16494680414231181992016-04-25T14:39:06.288-04:002016-04-25T14:39:06.288-04:00The comments from the Koch brothers don't phas...The comments from the Koch brothers don't phase me all that much. They are at least practical even if their economic beliefs are not.<br /><br />What disturbs me more is the comment from Sanders supporters that suggests that they *want* Clinton to fail as President so that will make it easier for a "real" progressive to defeat her in 2020. Part of that seems to include a desire that the 2018 mid-terms be a disaster for the Democrats.<br /><br />2010 and 2014 could reasonably be argued to have happened in part because Democrats were to apathetic to come out and vote. But what they are talking about is Democrats actively *boycotting* the Democratic party in 2018 in order to punish them for not selecting Sanders in 2016.<br /><br />That kind of talk is extremely dangerous.Chris Andersenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18139817527808942227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-71353792842297282992016-04-25T13:44:10.179-04:002016-04-25T13:44:10.179-04:00I agree that the Kochs, if they decide against act...I agree that the Kochs, if they decide against actively opposing her, will try to use HRC as a foil (assuming she gets elected). However, I'd add that such a purpose does not exclude another reason for non-opposition: (1) I think it very doubtful that an HRC administration (even with a temporarily D Senate if one is achieved) would seriously attempt, much less accomplish, anything all that inconvenient for the Kochs et al., and (2) as a corollary to (1), an HRC administration is very unlikely to do anything that would motivate increased off-year D turnout in '18, when the map will be uphill again for the D's. CHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409212720220729669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-21423837533694951122016-04-25T12:33:25.987-04:002016-04-25T12:33:25.987-04:00And the hijacking of "federalism" contin...And the hijacking of "federalism" continues apace. What Paul Ryan is talking about is the opposite of the original federalism. It is actually Antifederalism. <br /><br />But, in Bizzaro World...jsrthetahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09471258641340325875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3856837.post-12012827199258428152016-04-25T11:48:35.404-04:002016-04-25T11:48:35.404-04:00Here's an answer to your question of why the K...Here's an answer to your question of why the Kochs might "like" HRC more than Mr. Obama. Mr. Obama is black, and racism is an underlying theme in almost all right-wing politics. Also, at least prior to coming into office, Mr. Obama was an unknown relative to the Clintons, and seemed much more left than the governor of a southern state who, in 1992, had defeated the clearly more leftward, labor-oriented Tom Harkin. Back in them days I saw the Clintons are being more "Rockefeller Republicans" than anything else. History hasn't changed my opinion. Mrs. Clinton is the least likely candidate to rock any boats, something the Kochs as oligarchs most decidedly do not want. It's also true that the right wing, including the Kochs, have created a myth of radicalism around Mr. Obama which has never been accurate.Fiddlin Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083633111240927563noreply@blogger.com